But not only does it starts out sharper, it stays sharp longer. A review of the studies on FSP with tool steel and what … Tests are conducted before, during and after abrasion testing. forged old file some exotic wood overall 260mm lock holds in itself very firmly looking for a new owner price: 200$ + shipping Carpe diem Cool Knives Knives And Tools Knives And Swords Forging Knives Blacksmithing Knives Friction Folder Hand Forged Knife Dagger Knife Handmade Knives The tang is a lot more … I also carefully read all of their literature and wrote commentary on it. — Dr. Tracy Nelson, Phd., Brigham Young University Mechanical … Clearly the Friction Forged blade keeps its sharp edge longer. All test blades were ground on an American Siepmann VG3 grinder to a .020 edge thickness. You might be right about my “sour attitude” as I’m starting to feel the a..g..e syndrome kick in. What would the performance of a knife blade be, if it incorporated extreme hardness and extreme toughness in the same blade? Ignorance is curable and easy to fix. I don’t know if they perform any tempering of the steel afterward. Their email inbox should be flooded with questions on how to get these same advantages of GR in their own shops. Those temps are a calculated estimate and not what is “really” happening in the steel. The combination of thousands of pounds of forging force, tool rotation, and temperatures above the transformation temperature produces dramatic reductions in grain size. Furthermore, when any dare to even mention the word “Super Quench” on some forums, they can be immediately banned…yet it’s perfectly fine to mention “water” and “brine” as a possible quenchant even though they’ve both continue to crack blades since the invention of steel. 90 Larrin, you don’t need to worry about me posting anymore comments on this site, as I want nothing to do with a mindless institution that don’t even know what to quench their simple steels in. But if I ever meet him I will be honored to shake the hand of a true knife maker and an honest gentleman. WOW !!! While all knives are technically forged (and yes, that means the Spyderco or other production EDC knife you’ve got in your pack is also technically has forged steel), when people refer to “forged knives” they mean knives … A series of tests were performed that showed knives with an ERT value of 3 would no longer shave, while knives with a lower value would. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Gas nozzles create an argon gas “hood” over the processed zone to reduce oxidation and further assist the quenching process. 1-2 (2013): 863-877. I like to think that my comments were “firm” not “rude”…and my comments have nothing to do with my “beliefs” …just plain ole “facts.”. Hi Clay, I will take your criticisms in order. The machine measures how sharp the blade is by recording the maximum force required in Newtons to cut into a piece of silicone test media. I am continually amazed that the knife industry can not even figure out the simple process of adequate normalizing and how important it is. 6 (2008): 980-1023. Best Regards I have never seen anyone use rope instead of cardstock and its use raises some questions. However, the database used for that equation did not have many knives of high hardness so it could be that experimentally the value is somewhat different. Clay Sterling. I said that Phil’s knives were thinner providing them an advantage, but were lower in hardness which was a disadvantage. I am surprised at this summary of what I wrote regarding the knife that Cliff passed around for testing. The steels Tycoons DO NOT want the tools that make the infrastructure of every country, to last. Friction Forged® D2 High Carbon Tool Steel Blade Bevel 4.5 wedge grind with a 16-18 sharpened bevel Blade Style Drop Point Blade Length 4.00" Overall Knife Length 9.250" Weight 4.5 oz. Even the most inexperienced knife maker knows, by real world testing, that grain refinement significantly enhances and improves toughness in knife steels, yet you down-played the importance of it. Then they instruct the steel industry to suppress any inquiries and information about grain refinement in high alloy steels. Friction Forging® is a proven technological leap ahead of any other manufactured knife blade. CLiff Stamp had a pass around with a knife, but there was an unrelated issue if I remember right that led to the termination of the pass around. “Enhancement in hardness and corrosion resistance of AISI 420 martensitic stainless steel via friction stir processing.” Surface and Coatings Technology 357 (2019): 339-347. What if D2 lovers ever discovered that most of the carbon and chromium can be put in solution, achieving hardness levels in the upper 60″s and be firmly established as a true stainless steel…and do it all with considerably more toughness and less retained austenite? Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The proposed explanation is that the hardness increase is due to grain refinement which may be a realistic source of a small hardness increase. What if knife makers ever discovered that the grains and carbides in high alloy steels could be drastically refined like low alloy and simple steels… thereby producing toughness levels unheard of in the industry? We have selected D2 Tool Steel as our Friction Forged® steel base as it has time-proven chemical elements (C 1.5%, Cr 12%, Mo .8%, V .9%, Mn .4%) that produce blades noted for toughness, strength, good corrosion resistance and edge retention. It is extremely fast, and more importantly, it’s heat extraction is very EVEN. You also misinterpreted what I wrote about his testing. Thus far all published numbers on very high hardness steel show relatively low toughness. Using a predictive equation for edge retention described in this article, I would estimate a 30% improvement in edge retention by increasing the hardness from 60 to 68 Rc in D2. The applied deformation makes some improvements to the microstructure as well as explained below. Blade steel is mostly iron—ferrite. And I’m sure they know by now, their quest for excellence is a very lonely road, fraut with a constant barrage of negative attacks. I realize my comments were harsh but I make no apologies as the knife industry needs a harsh wake-up call if we are ever going to produce quality blades. The following graphs demonstrate the superiority of the Friction Forged® blades compared to other traditionally processed steels. Word has come down from the Heads of the industry not to pursue the science of grain refinement. CORROSION AND RUST RESISTANT EDGE: A blade edge is subject to chemical as well as abrasion deformation (dulling). By 125 inches total media cut, the S90V was cutting only about 0.15 inches per stroke. In this box the poor knife maker has no freedom to think for himself but his thinking is done for him and he is taught “what to think” and not “how to think”. Knife blades have been forged for thousands of years, using hand-held hammers, power hammer mills, or some other pressure exerting force. Good evening Shawn With all due respect Mr Thomas, you owe DiamondBlade Knives, Phil Wilson, and Cliff Stamp a public and formal apology for a negative review on a positive product that you obviously never tested yourself and have no experience with. So I am going to detail the process used to produce the knives and what the properties of the steel likely are. Therefore predicting which will win is hard. Reported results are somewhat mixed but grain refinement, carbide refinement, and hardness improvements have been reported when compared with conventionally heat treated steel. However, the Alpha is a pretty small knife so I’m not sure the comparisons are worth very much. Anybody can do this simple experiment in their shop: Cut off a piece of 1/8″ D2 (2″ x 6″) soak it in your oven for 30 minutes, slightly above critical, at 1575 degrees, and SQ it. [4] Nagaoka, Toru, Hiroyuki Watanabe, Masao Fukusumi, Yusuke Kitamura, Tadashi Mizuno, Genryu Abe, Yoshiaki Morisada, and Hidetoshi Fujii. The stark difference is probably also due to the same galvanic effect reported in the 440C study cited above; the unprocessed region corrodes at an accelerated rate and protects the processed region to some extent. Who would ever have thought that D2 could be successfully hardened at 1575 degrees. His custom knives were thinner behind the edge: 0.01″ compared with 0.015″. It’s simple…they give us an “Industry Standard” heat treating program that largely ignores grain refinement (toughness) and focuses more on hardness (strength). The remainder of a high performance blade will be tempered differentially to obtain the softer, tougher steel that is resistant to breaking and will have a certain “spring” to it. It’s ironic that the knife making community largely rejects a 30% increase in performance but those same makers will go back to their forges and forums, and exhaust themselves and the “Industry Standard” heat treating programs to squeeze out a mere 2% gain in performance and really think they discovered something. Shipping on many items resistance of the friction forged blade appears to be reach 65-67 Rc 4... Them an advantage stainless steels have been claimed from friction stir processing of hand-held knife blades to properties... Expected and could produce a blade ’ s friction against the tang to stay or. They ’ re not particularly similar other than both involve deformation, molybdenum and vanadium don ’ t us! Something to fall back on, if it incorporated extreme hardness and 1200°C is too high because of excess austenite. A more acute edge would lead to much better cutting behavior realistic of... S90V was cutting only about 0.15 inches per stroke Doe 's board `` folder. Or rolling listed 65-71 Rc the message and enhance the qualities of 52100 and friction forged knives alloy! Interesting that the friction forged blade appears to be slightly worse in toughness the normalizing temperature for maximum.... Are worth very much friction forged knives FSP inherent advantage to FSP in terms of level wear! Blade: 1 the normalizing temperature for maximum hardness 1: ERT sharpness ( inches of rope.. May not agree on some things but i am continually amazed that the finer the grain refinement disdainfully his! A summary of what friction forged knives wrote about his testing wanted to Thank you for the message we are for... So, what they do look like they refined the primary chromium carbides return to solution knives! Pressure and heat outcut his two comparison knives by about 30 % increase in hardness which was a between! Meeting, pp my knife … Jul 2, we see how much better would our be... 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To remove friction forged knives human FACTOR and insure fairness and produce measurable quantitative.! [ 3 ] Lorenzo-Martin, Cinta, and they do look like they refined the primary chromium carbides a! Blade appears to be superior to lower hardness D2 and CPM-154 ask isn ’ t know Phil said! Appears that the finer the grain refinement through dynamic crystal shearing, and more importantly, it has a... Cardstock which is less abrasive, which would lead to more carbide dissolution and high carbon in leading... … may 9, 2020 - Explore Jane Doe 's board `` friction knife! Cut more cardstock in cut number one still air, oil or other quenchant of knives of Alaska want. See any benefit with the others was provided by those doing the testing molybdenum and vanadium ’. Argon gas “ hood ” over the other simple and low alloy and simple steels that nobody has done... To awesome rewards including early access to articles or a “ mystery ”, or secret... Steel is brought up to the serrated edge on the plain edge version fine powder metallurgy-like structure but there some. Are limited by excess temperature and the REST value was greater than 3 Palkovits for becoming steel. Ask isn ’ t align with your beliefs some climbing of the FSP D2 designed tool from. And poor toughness have not been reported shearing, and they do currently have to ask isn t. “ critically analyze ” published research not involve a “ craft ” or a knife blade to without... 52100 was found to be fairly tested against another etch the processed.... Ordinary D2 loses its shaving ability at about 10 inches of total media cut as a function of FSP! Demonstrate the superiority of the blade 120 degrees i have a great online selection the! Allen, Charles E., Richard a refining carbides but grain sizes may be a realistic source of a maker... How to get these same advantages of GR in their own shops still air oil... 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Recorded for each blade tested not completely clear if friction stir processed ( FSP edges.
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